The primary contents of this Post has been removed by the Host at about 3.30pm, Wednesday May 24, 2006 -- on account of an amicable close to the trying episode. ~~ Desiderata
SPECIAL NOTE TO ALL ESTEEMED READERS: May 20, 2006 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(1) Please note that your Comments are welcome, but ANONYMOUS commenters are not entertained for this Post. However, pennames e.g. HOWSY, can continue to be used as the owners have their OWN BLOGS which ensure ownership and accountability.
(2) Please state from the beginning of your Comment that 'I endorse this initiative' to enable your name to be promoted to Frontpage plus Comment which will be submitted with a covering Memo reading as (3) next.
(3) To YAB Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, Prime Minister of Malaysia, Putrajaya. Date:
Dear Mr Prime Minister: I extend our best wishes for your good health.
We would like to draw your attention to a Post written by MENJ at a Blog named "MENJ's Critical Thoughts" that we, the undersigned, feel is highly inciteful, and can promote hate and distrust among the peace-loving and law-abiding citizens of our beloved country.
We hope your good office will take note and take action that is right and the appropriate on the matter.
Yours faithfully,
Signed: CONCERNED CITIZENS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(4) Endorse this initiative out of your own conviction only, after a thorough reading of the views from both sides and reflecting on the issues involved. If you only wish to comment, BUT DO NOT ENDORSE the initiative in presenting the Memo to the PM, please state CLEARLY AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF YOUR COMMENT. "Thank you again" for your cooperation.
From: Y.L. CHONG, owner of desiderata-ylchong accessed @ desiderata2000.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~ UPDATE 1: For some 30 Comments to date, please visit the Original Post on Saturday May 20, 2006. ~~~~~~~~
PS: New and old commenters are welcome to add their comments today. Those who have commented before but Desi did not add to the List on the Frontpage are those who had NOT expressly stated their endorsement. But is they wish to support the initiative, please indicate clearly with fresh Comments here. Thank you. ~~ Desi
By desiderata, at 10:19 AM
~~~~~~~~ UPDATE 2: Today with with Re-Post, I had included an INTRODUCTION, chiefly giving my views/responses to calls by certain Bloggers/Readers to "review" this Initiative on the grounds that it iis "too drastic" plus other concerns.
You're welcome to give your new/refreshed/fresher views, but a REMINDER that Anonymous comments are NOT entertained, like from some "Panda" addies yesterday. Tentative deadline of Thursday still stands. Thank you. ~~ Desi 11.45AM Tuesday May 23, 2006 ~~~~~~~~~
(1) some quarters have described some actions/reactions to MENJ -- including this Initiative -- as a vendetta, witchhunt, and Enye for an Eye thingy.
Let me from the start state my premises very clearly:
I'm the first here to adhere to the dictum: Do unto others what you wish others (do) unto tyou -- which I believe is a universal motto preached by all GOOD religions. I am 100% serious about my commitment to the stands I take in my CivilSociety issues here, which dominate with my English?poetry adventures.
I don't wish to flag off as a Saint or a martyr, so I don not wish any Readers to impart any religious/racist mantle to my endeavours here. "Civil" society transcends Race, Religion and Gender.
I stress that I am only a journalist-writer which gives me my B&B, with some kaya (extra moolah) thrown in occasionally. Yes, I can banter with my ER on the Lietrature?poetry fronts, but when it comes to "national; issues" such as this originating from MENJ's, I am dead serious. Hence I dislllow Anonymous comments, which I tolerate in not-so-serious Posts, even after suffering TWO incidents of mass-spamming I hesitate in activating WORD VERIFICATION despite some mGf appeals to do so.
I believe I'm honest -- challenge me if you disagree -- when I say this is THE RIGHT, HONOURABLE THING TO DO.
Please refer to "issues/points" under reference when discussing. I'm NOT interested in "personal attacks" -- nor will I enterain the same from any Commenters. But dissenting views will be gladly taken up in debate. I'll even allow myself to be entertauined by some satire if yiou are UP TO IT. Make sure your toingue is as glib as the travelling salesman because this Host does not lack in that department either. Telcocard or Car Sales, anyone?
thanks for your perspective on the May 13, 1969 Incident. This "issue" was just referred to in passing by Desi; I did leave a short comment there saying when one's starting premise on a historical event is "flawed", then the rest of the writing is similarly faulty. I walked away with misgivings and raised blood pressure though.
This Initiative flows from the core issue of MENJ's "Christian bashing Post", first taken up substantively by fellow Blogger Minishorts, plus a spirited Commentor "Mei" (the scarefer) -- which prompted Desiderata's action/reaction/pro-action...As I said to Commenters, this "bigoted religious hate campauign" cannot be left unchallenged, as it really "broke the camel's back" for me and some of mGf, hence this Initiative.
I welcome thee back seeking your views on this "core" issue under discourse -- plus the views of several quarters asking for a "review" of this Initiative, perhaps calling if off...
Tehtarik to you if this is your first visit -- I have "met" you via Comments through other Blogsites.
ooops. mispell~~~ "Bigjoe99": i need a hiatus -- this thingy truly stresses, and I fell again to "More haste Less speed." Offer tehtarik second round!:)
Thanks for additional comments citing sources for the May 13, 1969 Incident, clarifying its cause/s and the parties and politics at play.I was hoping for your input on the current MENJ-Religious Bigotry issue, thought I presume when your mentioned this -- "that Menj believes are based on lies because his forefathers built it on lies -- it's left to Readers' possible postulation as to how MENJ came to develop his "views"? That's my extrapostulation.
sorry desi lately no comment. Ms.Fashion duwanna comment on religion stuffs. oso no time to read so much. TOO MUCH INFO!! kenot digest. Can cirit birit wan u knoe..
No worries -- thy visit gladdens my heart, for there is room for CivilSociety education and awareness creation here.
Don't worry bein NOT in a position to take a stand for lack of understanding on this issue involved. AS I also said previously, I seldom venture into "this terrotry"! -- just less than 5 posts so far, out of now 750!
For 1,000th Post Desi will promo Malaysian fashion, Interview thee for Sexpert Op. My payment rate is by word count:) and you know I'm some W-smith! Yes? :) Even the saleman got seked!:(
Well, now that you talk about the questions, a bit drastic? Yes and no too.
For one, there is freedom of speech. Not that what I think he blogged about is appropriate but the intervention of the government may not be the best thing to do. New problems will pop up eg. flamers everywhere, where is the line for the government to respond, etc.
Maybe, highlighting such an issue in the newspaper would be better? People would realise then that there are such people out there.
Also, MENJ should have a discussion about it and not just blocking everyone. Perhaps, if he apologises, we'll see how it goes? If he doesn't, then maybe to the media or something.
The apprehension that bringing the issue to the highest authority will invite its intervention in the blogsphere is somewhat naive. Any sensible government is aware of the potential legal, social, political and security "problems" that could arise at the advent of the internet/blogsphere, and would have some ideas/guidelines to handle the situation as it comes, even though they are not spelt out in legislation as yet, and is already "involved" for sure, at least for high-priority security reasons (just that you are not aware of it).
It is a grave mistake to assume that the authority has not openly intervened in the blogsphere (many may think so), and that there is freedom to write anything one desires. Technically speaking, one has freedom to write anything, even to write something libellous or seditious, so long as he can afford full compensation for it or is prepared to live behind bars for some period of time, respectively!
If at all there should be some formulation of guidelines or rules for the blogsphere, the authority is the rightful body to do that, in lines with the laws of the land. And if there should exist a "recognised body" for bloggers, one of its functions will be to regulate members within the stipulated rules/regulations.
The extremity of this person's views and statements are signs of an irrational person (in my opinion); as such, engaging him in friendly discourse will unlikely bear any positive result; his banning of visitors to his blog shows he is digging in (or rebelling), instead of opening himself to communication. Extreme views or hardcore views are not easy to neutralise; much time in counselling is needed.
Some prefer to give him time and wait for him to show some sign of remorse, that is commendable, but if he is able to do that, he would have done that or hinted at that already, right? And what then if he chooses not to?...turn the left cheek for him to slap, ignore him, or wish it all away? Will that encourage more people to write such offensive remarks for whatever motives (personal ego, blog hits, etc)? It is fair to assume that the authority, either on their own initiative (from reading blog writings on the net like you and me) or as a result of some formal complaints from some quarters, will start to control blogging actively and openly for the sake of racial and religious harmony, especially when the situation becomes "critically" unhealthy?
I have no more comments left about Malaysia. Each time I try to raise an issue, people call me unpatriotic.
May 13 isn't as simple as we all think. We have been led to think that it's caused by this and that fella, but the true story.. well.. I won't bother revealing anymore because there are other documents and literature lying here in NZ that proves otherwise. Extensive research has been done in the past by people around the world regarding this tragic issue, and it's frankly not as simple.
So Desi, if you want our voices heard, let's start with something simple-- get everyone to vote. And then we're talking. To get fellow Malaysians to rally or create some noise to government officials?? I'm sorry, I'm skeptical about it. But whatever it is, all the best, Desi.
I have posted up PENUMTIMATE UPDATE at about 1045AM, Wednesday May 24, 2006. Just read the INTRO will do for earlier Readers who have been following the issue. The new development is to "defer" the deadline to Next Monday May 29, 2006 5.00pm to allow time for MENJ to respond to Mnishorts' initiative for an amicable settlement, chiefly requiring MENJ's admission of his wrongdoing, plus an expression of sincere apologies from him.
Than you for your interest and patience on the matter. ~~ Desi Wednesday 10.57AM May 24, 2006
Thanks for revisiting with "fresher" views. They are noted and indeed, the Minishorts proposal allows for an Amicable settlement provided MENJ responds positively, and the Initiative for this Memo will be discontinued. (As I said earlier, I am open to persuasion.)
I think the ball now is in MENJ's court --- unfortunately, so far it has been silence on MENJ's front. Let's be patient and wait until 5.00pm next Monday, rite?
Your suggestion of alternative ways to pursue are noted. Thanks.:)
Thanks for revisiting -- and your views are noted and seem useful from a Concerned one of a friendly neighbour. I hope you'd give me some time to revert via Email.
Your time spent "sharing" here is well APpreciated, esp by this Host. let's raise a few glasses of Haridas' bestA to our health!:)
Pls bear with Desi re that email, rite! Wonder should it end with a Q mark like ...? but that would be rhetorical... Some folks who are new here may be confused by Desi's digression into other issues not under surveikllance.:(
Welcome back after a long "hiatus" which my Blogger frens seem to be doing by "turn" -- is there some conspiracy I don no about?
Your views on BMay 13 must relate to Bigjoe's acciount of the dark blot in Malaysia's history; here it's a secondary issue.
Any opinions on the current "MEN" issue? And your support maybe?
To Bigjoe99:
Yes, thanks for earlier comments, but do you want to Endorse this Initiative for the Memo?
Good day everyone -- Thanks for continued interest and discourse.
Sab -- ref to "So Desi, if you want our voices heard, let's start with something simple-- get everyone to vote. And then we're talking. " ~~ There's a time for everything under heaven, Yes, as stated by several writers via Desi's Place. we'll do more rumination on other "national issues", meanwhile, Take care.
~~ God Bless to Malaysians overseas, esp Down Under, in LOTR where Sabrina resides and soon may offer Desi dental service Gratis :), and in UK, where HOwsy is also in "hiastus", rhymes with coitus. Dear ER should not ask the relevance 'cos there was no Q mark at precedent close.:) I hear someone whisper: Timbuktwo...:) or .......three, "WHEREVER YOU ARE, DEAR MALAYSIANS."
18 comments:
SPECIAL NOTE TO ALL ESTEEMED READERS: May 20, 2006
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(1) Please note that your Comments are welcome, but ANONYMOUS commenters are not entertained for this Post. However, pennames e.g. HOWSY, can continue to be used as the owners have their OWN BLOGS which ensure ownership and accountability.
(2) Please state from the beginning of your Comment that 'I endorse this initiative' to enable your name to be promoted to Frontpage plus Comment which will be submitted with a covering Memo reading as (3) next.
(3) To YAB Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi,
Prime Minister of Malaysia,
Putrajaya.
Date:
Dear Mr Prime Minister:
I extend our best wishes for your good health.
We would like to draw your attention to a Post written by MENJ at a Blog named "MENJ's Critical Thoughts" that we, the undersigned, feel is highly inciteful, and can promote hate and distrust among the peace-loving and law-abiding citizens of our beloved country.
We hope your good office will take note and take action that is right and the appropriate on the matter.
Yours faithfully,
Signed: CONCERNED CITIZENS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(4) Endorse this initiative out of your own conviction only, after a thorough reading of the views from both sides and reflecting on the issues involved.
If you only wish to comment, BUT DO NOT ENDORSE the initiative in presenting the Memo to the PM, please state CLEARLY AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF YOUR COMMENT.
"Thank you again" for your cooperation.
From: Y.L. CHONG, owner of desiderata-ylchong
accessed @ desiderata2000.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~
UPDATE 1: For some 30 Comments to date, please visit the Original Post on Saturday May 20, 2006.
~~~~~~~~
PS: New and old commenters are welcome to add their comments today. Those who have commented before but Desi did not add to the List on the Frontpage are those who had NOT expressly stated their endorsement. But is they wish to support the initiative, please indicate clearly with fresh Comments here. Thank you. ~~ Desi
By desiderata, at 10:19 AM
~~~~~~~~
UPDATE 2: Today with with Re-Post, I had included an INTRODUCTION, chiefly
giving my views/responses to calls by certain Bloggers/Readers to "review" this Initiative on the grounds that it iis "too drastic" plus other concerns.
You're welcome to give your new/refreshed/fresher views, but a REMINDER that Anonymous comments are NOT entertained, like from some "Panda" addies yesterday.
Tentative deadline of Thursday still stands. Thank you. ~~ Desi
11.45AM Tuesday May 23, 2006
~~~~~~~~~
Some secondary comments by DESIDERATA:
(1) some quarters have described some actions/reactions to MENJ -- including this Initiative -- as a vendetta, witchhunt, and Enye for an Eye thingy.
Let me from the start state my premises very clearly:
I'm the first here to adhere to the dictum: Do unto others what you wish others (do) unto tyou -- which I believe is a universal motto preached by all GOOD religions.
I am 100% serious about my commitment to the stands I take in my CivilSociety issues here, which dominate with my English?poetry adventures.
I don't wish to flag off as a Saint or a martyr, so I don not wish any Readers to impart any religious/racist mantle to my endeavours here. "Civil" society transcends Race, Religion and Gender.
I stress that I am only a journalist-writer which gives me my B&B, with some kaya (extra moolah) thrown in occasionally. Yes, I can banter with my ER on the Lietrature?poetry fronts, but when it comes to "national; issues" such as this originating from MENJ's, I am dead serious. Hence I dislllow Anonymous comments, which I tolerate in not-so-serious Posts, even after suffering TWO incidents of mass-spamming I hesitate in activating WORD VERIFICATION despite some mGf appeals to do so.
I believe I'm honest -- challenge me if you disagree -- when I say this is THE RIGHT, HONOURABLE THING TO DO.
Please refer to "issues/points" under reference when discussing. I'm NOT interested in "personal attacks" -- nor will I enterain the same from any Commenters.
But dissenting views will be gladly taken up in debate. I'll even allow myself to be entertauined by some satire if yiou are UP TO IT. Make sure your toingue is as glib as the travelling salesman because this Host does not lack in that department either. Telcocard or Car Sales, anyone?
bigkoe99:
thanks for your perspective on the May 13, 1969 Incident. This "issue" was just referred to in passing by Desi; I did leave a short comment there saying when one's starting premise on a historical event is "flawed", then the rest of the writing is similarly faulty. I walked away with misgivings and raised blood pressure though.
This Initiative flows from the core issue of MENJ's "Christian bashing Post", first taken up substantively by fellow Blogger Minishorts, plus a spirited Commentor "Mei" (the scarefer) -- which prompted Desiderata's action/reaction/pro-action...As I said to Commenters, this "bigoted religious hate campauign" cannot be left unchallenged, as it really "broke the camel's back" for me and some of mGf, hence this Initiative.
I welcome thee back seeking your views on this "core" issue under discourse -- plus the views of several quarters asking for a "review" of this Initiative, perhaps calling if off...
Tehtarik to you if this is your first visit -- I have "met" you via Comments through other Blogsites.
ooops. mispell~~~ "Bigjoe99": i need a hiatus -- this thingy truly stresses, and I fell again to "More haste Less speed."
Offer tehtarik second round!:)
bigjoe99:
Thanks for additional comments citing sources for the May 13, 1969 Incident, clarifying its cause/s and the parties and politics at play.I was hoping for your input on the current MENJ-Religious Bigotry issue, thought I presume when your mentioned this -- "that Menj believes are based on lies because his forefathers built it on lies -- it's left to Readers' possible postulation as to how MENJ came to develop his "views"? That's my extrapostulation.
sorry desi lately no comment. Ms.Fashion duwanna comment on religion stuffs. oso no time to read so much. TOO MUCH INFO!! kenot digest. Can cirit birit wan u knoe..
FAshionistA:
No worries -- thy visit gladdens my heart, for there is room for CivilSociety education and awareness creation here.
Don't worry bein NOT in a position to take a stand for lack of understanding on this issue involved. AS I also said previously, I seldom venture into "this terrotry"! -- just less than 5 posts so far, out of now 750!
For 1,000th Post Desi will promo Malaysian fashion, Interview thee for Sexpert Op. My payment rate is by word count:) and you know I'm some W-smith! Yes? :)
Even the saleman got seked!:(
Well, now that you talk about the questions, a bit drastic? Yes and no too.
For one, there is freedom of speech. Not that what I think he blogged about is appropriate but the intervention of the government may not be the best thing to do. New problems will pop up eg. flamers everywhere, where is the line for the government to respond, etc.
Maybe, highlighting such an issue in the newspaper would be better? People would realise then that there are such people out there.
Also, MENJ should have a discussion about it and not just blocking everyone. Perhaps, if he apologises, we'll see how it goes? If he doesn't, then maybe to the media or something.
Would that be better?
Thanks for Kyle's address. Ok, I'll go ask Mona Lisa where's her chapter 2.
MENJ has banned Malaysian IPs from accessing his blog again. Seems to be an attention whore, if you ask me.
Just some points of view from the sidelines:
The apprehension that bringing the issue to the highest authority will invite its intervention in the blogsphere is somewhat naive. Any sensible government is aware of the potential legal, social, political and security "problems" that could arise at the advent of the internet/blogsphere, and would have some ideas/guidelines to handle the situation as it comes, even though they are not spelt out in legislation as yet, and is already "involved" for sure, at least for high-priority security reasons (just that you are not aware of it).
It is a grave mistake to assume that the authority has not openly intervened in the blogsphere (many may think so), and that there is freedom to write anything one desires. Technically speaking, one has freedom to write anything, even to write something libellous or seditious, so long as he can afford full compensation for it or is prepared to live behind bars for some period of time, respectively!
If at all there should be some formulation of guidelines or rules for the blogsphere, the authority is the rightful body to do that, in lines with the laws of the land.
And if there should exist a "recognised body" for bloggers, one of its functions will be to regulate members within the stipulated rules/regulations.
The extremity of this person's views and statements are signs of an irrational person (in my opinion); as such, engaging him in friendly discourse will unlikely bear any positive result; his banning of visitors to his blog shows he is digging in (or rebelling), instead of opening himself to communication. Extreme views or hardcore views are not easy to neutralise; much time in counselling is needed.
Some prefer to give him time and wait for him to show some sign of remorse, that is commendable, but if he is able to do that, he would have done that or hinted at that already, right? And what then if he chooses not to?...turn the left cheek for him to slap, ignore him, or wish it all away? Will that encourage more people to write such offensive remarks for whatever motives (personal ego, blog hits, etc)? It is fair to assume that the authority, either on their own initiative (from reading blog writings on the net like you and me) or as a result of some formal complaints from some quarters, will start to control blogging actively and openly for the sake of racial and religious harmony, especially when the situation becomes "critically" unhealthy?
My guess is that that day is not too far away.
Hi Desi
I have no more comments left about Malaysia. Each time I try to raise an issue, people call me unpatriotic.
May 13 isn't as simple as we all think. We have been led to think that it's caused by this and that fella, but the true story.. well.. I won't bother revealing anymore because there are other documents and literature lying here in NZ that proves otherwise. Extensive research has been done in the past by people around the world regarding this tragic issue, and it's frankly not as simple.
So Desi, if you want our voices heard, let's start with something simple-- get everyone to vote. And then we're talking.
To get fellow Malaysians to rally or create some noise to government officials?? I'm sorry, I'm skeptical about it.
But whatever it is, all the best, Desi.
Dear ER All:
I have posted up PENUMTIMATE UPDATE at about 1045AM, Wednesday May 24, 2006. Just read the INTRO will do for earlier Readers who have been following the issue.
The new development is to "defer" the deadline to Next Monday May 29, 2006 5.00pm to allow time for MENJ to respond to Mnishorts' initiative for an amicable settlement, chiefly requiring MENJ's admission of his wrongdoing, plus an expression of sincere apologies from him.
Than you for your interest and patience on the matter. ~~ Desi
Wednesday 10.57AM May 24, 2006
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi twisted heels:
Thanks for revisiting with "fresher" views. They are noted and indeed, the Minishorts proposal allows for an Amicable settlement provided MENJ responds positively, and the Initiative for this Memo will be discontinued. (As I said earlier, I am open to persuasion.)
I think the ball now is in MENJ's court --- unfortunately, so far it has been silence on MENJ's front. Let's be patient and wait until 5.00pm next Monday, rite?
Your suggestion of alternative ways to pursue are noted. Thanks.:)
fishtail:
Thanks for dropping by -- I see your obsession with Mona Lisa is not affected by the ongoing MENJ drama?
Gooddie and we'll peep at Chap2 with the Gal with a Killer S-mile behind the wet curtain SO-ON? ...Like before Monday deadline?:)
johnleemk:
Thanks for the Update on this MENJ's access problem, we don't really know what's the true reality, do we?
We'll await further developments -- Thanks again. (Continue thy game of I spy -- we have time for some pastime, yes. Y&A?:)
joepsc:
Thanks for revisiting -- and your views are noted and seem useful from a Concerned one of a friendly neighbour. I hope you'd give me some time to revert via Email.
Your time spent "sharing" here is well APpreciated, esp by this Host. let's raise a few glasses of Haridas' bestA to our health!:)
Pls bear with Desi re that email, rite! Wonder should it end with a Q mark like ...? but that would be rhetorical... Some folks who are new here may be confused by Desi's digression into other issues not under surveikllance.:(
Sabrina:
Welcome back after a long "hiatus" which my Blogger frens seem to be doing by "turn" -- is there some conspiracy I don no about?
Your views on BMay 13 must relate to Bigjoe's acciount of the dark blot in Malaysia's history; here it's a secondary issue.
Any opinions on the current "MEN" issue? And your support maybe?
To Bigjoe99:
Yes, thanks for earlier comments, but do you want to Endorse this Initiative for the Memo?
Good day everyone -- Thanks for continued interest and discourse.
Sab -- ref to "So Desi, if you want our voices heard, let's start with something simple-- get everyone to vote. And then we're talking. " ~~ There's a time for everything under heaven, Yes, as stated by several writers via Desi's Place. we'll do more rumination on other "national issues", meanwhile, Take care.
~~ God Bless to Malaysians overseas, esp Down Under, in LOTR where Sabrina resides and soon may offer Desi dental service Gratis :), and in UK, where HOwsy is also in "hiastus", rhymes with coitus. Dear ER should not ask the relevance 'cos there was no Q mark at precedent close.:)
I hear someone whisper: Timbuktwo...:) or .......three,
"WHEREVER YOU ARE, DEAR MALAYSIANS."
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