The primary contents of this Post has been removed by the Host at about 3.30pm, Wednesday May 24, 2006 -- on account of an amicable close to the trying episode. ~~ Desiderata
SPECIAL NOTE TO ALL ESTEEMED READERS: May 20, 2006 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(1) Please note that your Comments are welcome, but ANONYMOUS commenters are not entertained for this Post. However, pennames e.g. HOWSY, can continue to be used as the owners have their OWN BLOGS which ensure ownership and accountability.
(2) Please state from the beginning of your Comment that 'I endorse this initiative' to enable your name to be promoted to Frontpage plus Comment which will be submitted with a covering Memo reading as (3) next.
(3) To YAB Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, Prime Minister of Malaysia, Putrajaya. Date:
Dear Mr Prime Minister: I extend our best wishes for your good health.
We would like to draw your attention to a Post written by MENJ at a Blog named "MENJ's Critical Thoughts" that we, the undersigned, feel is highly inciteful, and can promote hate and distrust among the peace-loving and law-abiding citizens of our beloved country.
We hope your good office will take note and take action that is right and the appropriate on the matter.
Yours faithfully,
Signed: CONCERNED CITIZENS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(4) Endorse this initiative out of your own conviction only, after a thorough reading of the views from both sides and reflecting on the issues involved. If you only wish to comment, BUT DO NOT ENDORSE the initiative in presenting the Memo to the PM, please state CLEARLY AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF YOUR COMMENT. "Thank you again" for your cooperation.
From: Y.L. CHONG, owner of desiderata-ylchong accessed @ desiderata2000.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~ UPDATE 1: For some 30 Comments to date, please visit the Original Post on Saturday May 20, 2006. ~~~~~~~~
PS: New and old commenters are welcome to add their comments today. Those who have commented before but Desi did not add to the List on the Frontpage are those who had NOT expressly stated their endorsement. But is they wish to support the initiative, please indicate clearly with fresh Comments here. Thank you. ~~ Desi
Minishorts has posted today a new Post on the MENJ issue~~~Desi advises ER to spend some time reading the full post @minishorts.net.
I'm reprsing 2first 2 paras here: "Preventing a great divide Maybe some of you have been waiting for my take on the development of things. Or to see what I'm going to do next, for example, take it to the authorities-ke, make it known to more important circles-ke, so that some kind of justice and action can be taken towards the kind of insult that so many of us have had to endure over the past week.
And then, if you sit and think again, is it really necessary? Because I'm not very keen on bringing in authorities into the picture when all that is warranted, is a public apology, and a commitment on Mohd Elfie's part to tone down on his mission 'to expose and destroy (misrepresentation of) Christianity'. "
Minishorts was "away" over the weekend when Desi initiated this Memo thingy, and Minishorts has some reservations -- which are worth reconsidering -- chiefly, whether a Memo to the PM is "too drastic" an action, also such action would be setting a "bad" precedent for authorities to act against Bloggers.
I nivite your esteemed comments as a decison planned for Thursday is subject to the feedback on this matter.
Please speak your mind freely; even those who have endorsed this Initiative and after reflecting on issues raised by Minishorts and her Commenters, whether if have a fresher viewpoint. Thank you ________________________________ ~~Desi, 3.58PM Monday I also left a comment there
IMHO, I see many feel offended and deem what MENJ wrote as inciting hatred but, at the same time reluctant to report/complain him to the authorities. The reason? This may be too drastic. (reporting him to the authorities)
Is it too drastic? Maybe yes, maybe no. Who is the judge of that? The authorities of course. You see, when you report someone to the authorities, this is not taking things into your own hands and passing down your very own judgment. You are merely exercising your rights and let the relevant authorities do what they deem is the right action. For all I know, they might not even care!
Someone said if we report this, they'll (the religious fanatics) still be spreading their venom through other channels. True, but if we can prevent this person spreading 'venom' through one channel, that is already good enough for me. Government intervening in the blogosphere? Please, to think just because you don't bitch to the government they'll let the blogosphere be 'garmen-free' is naive. The Garmen does not need any of our justification to police the web.
Everybody has an opinion. Everybody has their own sense of justice. That is why it is even more important than ever to let the law decide. For all I know, you might be bias, I might be bias.... but one thing we agree on is.... true, we are only human and we are bias. That is why, we need the authorities to decide.
Panda Head Towel - "And who are you or anyone else to say who's MISINTERPRETING islam? Interpretations are subjective."
I might be wrong, but your question gave me the impression that you had already arrived at the conclusion that interpretations are subjective and therefore, nobody can say for sure what is right or wrong.(as it is dependant of the interpretation of the individual) If that is the case, I could have asked the very same question "who are you to say that interpretations are supposed to be subjective?"
I think the issue should be argued on the merits of the interpretation (by an individual) and not the individual itself.
I've "DELETED" your comment as you're deemed an ANONYMOUS commenter, which I have stated right from the beginning I'm NOT allowing for this Post.
Readers are utrged to stand up and be counted -- hence the need for you to be identified, even via pennames links to your Blogs -- as far as this Host is concerned.
I have "saved" your Comment in my own personal archives, and iif you like to have this Comment Re-posted, please indicate your Identity via Comments channel. Thank you.--Desi
SPECIAL NOTE -- panda head towel devil's cult said:
I've "DELETED" your comment too as you're deemed an ANONYMOUS commenter, which I have stated right from the beginning I'm NOT allowing for this Post.
It appears you're the same Commenter as writing under "panda head towel" -- my guess -- and it's prcisely a reflection of one person assuming more than one "head" to propagate certain viewpoints which I don't encourage.
Readers are urged to stand up and be counted -- hence the need for you to be identified, even via pennames links to your Blogs -- as far as this Host is concerned.
helen (combining responses to both your Comments):
I'm glad you reverted on some important points which need reflection here.
P1: "Is it too drastic? Maybe yes, maybe no. "
My concurrence with Helen on the point that some parties would say Yes, others No. As for Desi, I think "no" after much reflection, otherwise I would "discontinue" this initiative.
P2: "Government intervening in the blogosphere? Please, to think just because you don't bitch to the government they'll let the blogosphere be 'garmen-free' is naive. The Garmen does not need any of our justification to police the web."
Desi generally agrees with Helen's points. The Govt is an elected one -- whether you like its leaders or policies is not the issue here, and it surely does have a responsibility to "act" on grievances or issues of the people when some Citizens or Group of Citizens feel strongly enough on an Issue (like this MENJ's created one) to bring "it" to its attention.
By the way mention, some Bloggers had indeed taken certain "incients" to the PDRM (I won't cite the details here as I believe active followers of Blogosphere have got discerning powers) -- I stress the point made by Helen that the Government would NOT react to my pending Memo by surveilling the Blogosphere. It is naive to believe that it has "not" been doing so from the early days of Multimedia development encompassing the Internet.As Helen said:"The Garmen does not need any of our justification to police the web."
P3. "Everybody has an opinion. Everybody has their own sense of justice. That is why it is even more important than ever to let the law decide."
Desi is supportive of Helen's views here. It is because MENJ has been writing such "inciteful" stuff for asome time, again and again ignoring responders' contrarian views and pleas, I decided "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH". I especially took great exception to MENJ's highly "in-human and personal" attack following the (late) Datin Seri Endon's demise. At that time, I did walk away with my Blood Presure raised (I don't even remember if I left any Comment ... if I did, it would definitely have lambasted him in a short, succint comment...).
Q4.Someone said if we report this, they'll (the religious fanatics) still be spreading their venom through other channels. True, but if we can prevent this person spreading 'venom' through one channel, that is already good enough for me.
It's precisely the Initial Post put up by Minishorts, followed by a spiried support by Mei (thescarfer) with her clarion call for people to stand up to be counted that prompted Desiderata to act/react/pro-act ...hence, this Initiative.
So to my EsteemedReaders here, thank you for your Continued Interest in this "national concern".
I'll Re-Post this Initial Post again for today and wednesday, and I'd continue to monitor the developments.
I need to be "persuaded" by sufficient and strong "grounds" to discontnue this Initiative.
panda kill panda -- if you are the same person as the following Commenter "devilsmark" -- please RE-COPY your comments and include under "devilsmark" -- then I'll welcome and engage you in discourse. Thanks. --Desi
Welcome to Dei's Place with a tehtarik,; if you are the same"panda" writing previous comments under various panad-addies, please Re-post your views. Here I call for proud ownership and accountability of views. Hence Anonymous comments are "deleted" -- I am proud of my Blog and if any Readers (esp the new ones) wish to know some background, you are advised to "visit" my first few Posts from March 15/16, 2005, where I also said i broadly had three main objectives:
(1) Civil Society issues
(2) Promotion of English, hence the adoption of a Poet's name of his prime work, Desiderata, as my Blog's name.
(3) Truth seeking -- an indefinable but natural component in a Quest of any "true-blooded"Writer/Poet which I aspire to be one.
Verily, the devilsmark gave his only panda to your blogspace.
You said: "I have "saved" your Comment in my own personal archives, and iif you like to have this Comment Re-posted, please indicate your Identity via Comments channel. Thank you.--Desi"
I have not saved my comments, and intense abuse of chemicals in my younger years have fried my short term memory. So if you don't have them saved as you mentioned above, then they've been committed to a final resting place in the aether of the 'net.
Verily too I say to you, if you do not wish to re-challenge your mind to Re-post similar points as postulated so profusely under three (My recall, may be wrong!) different "panda" banners (my guess again), so Be IT! Wella, there may well be more than 2 pandas roaming in Blogosphere, hence you understand why Desi insists on "personal ownership" of your views, if not proud?
PS: Pls proceed to Latest UPDATE Comments channel to say anything more, devilsmark. See you if the devilsmark, aka panada in its transforming forms, cares2. This is a free/flee country.
22 comments:
SPECIAL NOTE TO ALL ESTEEMED READERS: May 20, 2006
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(1) Please note that your Comments are welcome, but ANONYMOUS commenters are not entertained for this Post. However, pennames e.g. HOWSY, can continue to be used as the owners have their OWN BLOGS which ensure ownership and accountability.
(2) Please state from the beginning of your Comment that 'I endorse this initiative' to enable your name to be promoted to Frontpage plus Comment which will be submitted with a covering Memo reading as (3) next.
(3) To YAB Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi,
Prime Minister of Malaysia,
Putrajaya.
Date:
Dear Mr Prime Minister:
I extend our best wishes for your good health.
We would like to draw your attention to a Post written by MENJ at a Blog named "MENJ's Critical Thoughts" that we, the undersigned, feel is highly inciteful, and can promote hate and distrust among the peace-loving and law-abiding citizens of our beloved country.
We hope your good office will take note and take action that is right and the appropriate on the matter.
Yours faithfully,
Signed: CONCERNED CITIZENS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(4) Endorse this initiative out of your own conviction only, after a thorough reading of the views from both sides and reflecting on the issues involved.
If you only wish to comment, BUT DO NOT ENDORSE the initiative in presenting the Memo to the PM, please state CLEARLY AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF YOUR COMMENT.
"Thank you again" for your cooperation.
From: Y.L. CHONG, owner of desiderata-ylchong
accessed @ desiderata2000.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~
UPDATE 1: For some 30 Comments to date, please visit the Original Post on Saturday May 20, 2006.
~~~~~~~~
PS: New and old commenters are welcome to add their comments today. Those who have commented before but Desi did not add to the List on the Frontpage are those who had NOT expressly stated their endorsement. But is they wish to support the initiative, please indicate clearly with fresh Comments here. Thank you. ~~ Desi
I would like to endorse the initiative.
Thank you.
Nizam Zakaria
Friend, I visit that blog a few times and no longer do that..Got real sick of the contents..I believe this person is Evil in disguises. Thanks.
nizam zakaria: Thanks for your support.
Maybe share your learned views here a bit?
Offer thee a piping hot tehtarik,
a tradtion around here to firsttimer visitors with a BIG
WELCOME!:)
hi pak idrus:
How's life -- happy pathway like Desi, esp on the wickedends?
Thanks for writing -- i've left a luv note at thy place:)
FYI, DEAR ESTEEMED READERS:
Minishorts has posted today a new Post on the MENJ issue~~~Desi advises ER to spend some time reading the full post @minishorts.net.
I'm reprsing 2first 2 paras here:
"Preventing a great divide
Maybe some of you have been waiting for my take on the development of things. Or to see what I'm going to do next, for example, take it to the authorities-ke, make it known to more important circles-ke, so that some kind of justice and action can be taken towards the kind of insult that so many of us have had to endure over the past week.
And then, if you sit and think again, is it really necessary? Because I'm not very keen on bringing in authorities into the picture when all that is warranted, is a public apology, and a commitment on Mohd Elfie's part to tone down on his mission 'to expose and destroy (misrepresentation of) Christianity'. "
Minishorts was "away" over the weekend when Desi initiated this Memo thingy, and Minishorts has some reservations -- which are worth reconsidering -- chiefly, whether a Memo to the PM is "too drastic" an action, also such action would be setting a "bad" precedent for authorities to act against Bloggers.
I nivite your esteemed comments as a decison planned for Thursday is subject to the feedback on this matter.
Please speak your mind freely; even those who have endorsed this Initiative and after reflecting on issues raised by Minishorts and her Commenters, whether if have a fresher viewpoint. Thank you
________________________________
~~Desi, 3.58PM Monday
I also left a comment there
IMHO, I see many feel offended and deem what MENJ wrote as inciting hatred but, at the same time reluctant to report/complain him to the authorities. The reason? This may be too drastic. (reporting him to the authorities)
Is it too drastic? Maybe yes, maybe no. Who is the judge of that? The authorities of course. You see, when you report someone to the authorities, this is not taking things into your own hands and passing down your very own judgment. You are merely exercising your rights and let the relevant authorities do what they deem is the right action. For all I know, they might not even care!
Someone said if we report this, they'll (the religious fanatics) still be spreading their venom through other channels. True, but if we can prevent this person spreading 'venom' through one channel, that is already good enough for me. Government intervening in the blogosphere? Please, to think just because you don't bitch to the government they'll let the blogosphere be 'garmen-free' is naive. The Garmen does not need any of our justification to police the web.
Everybody has an opinion. Everybody has their own sense of justice. That is why it is even more important than ever to let the law decide. For all I know, you might be bias, I might be bias.... but one thing we agree on is.... true, we are only human and we are bias. That is why, we need the authorities to decide.
Panda Head Towel -
"And who are you or anyone else to say who's MISINTERPRETING islam? Interpretations are subjective."
I might be wrong, but your question gave me the impression that you had already arrived at the conclusion that interpretations are subjective and therefore, nobody can say for sure what is right or wrong.(as it is dependant of the interpretation of the individual) If that is the case, I could have asked the very same question "who are you to say that interpretations are supposed to be subjective?"
I think the issue should be argued on the merits of the interpretation (by an individual) and not the individual itself.
SPECIAL NOTE --
panda head towel:
I've "DELETED" your comment as you're deemed an ANONYMOUS commenter, which I have stated right from the beginning I'm NOT allowing for this Post.
Readers are utrged to stand up and be counted -- hence the need for you to be identified, even via pennames links to your Blogs -- as far as this Host is concerned.
I have "saved" your Comment in my own personal archives, and iif you like to have this Comment Re-posted, please indicate your Identity via Comments channel. Thank you.--Desi
SPECIAL NOTE --
panda head towel devil's cult said:
I've "DELETED" your comment too as you're deemed an ANONYMOUS commenter, which I have stated right from the beginning I'm NOT allowing for this Post.
It appears you're the same Commenter as writing under "panda head towel" -- my guess -- and it's prcisely a reflection of one person assuming more than one "head" to propagate certain viewpoints which I don't encourage.
Readers are urged to stand up and be counted -- hence the need for you to be identified, even via pennames links to your Blogs -- as far as this Host is concerned.
10.25AM
Tuesday May 23, 2006
Pologies, I thought a pen name would suffice.
Panda *
helen (combining responses to both your Comments):
I'm glad you reverted on some important points which need reflection here.
P1: "Is it too drastic? Maybe yes, maybe no. "
My concurrence with Helen on the point that some parties would say Yes, others No.
As for Desi, I think "no" after much reflection, otherwise I would "discontinue" this initiative.
P2: "Government intervening in the blogosphere? Please, to think just because you don't bitch to the government they'll let the blogosphere be 'garmen-free' is naive. The Garmen does not need any of our justification to police the web."
Desi generally agrees with Helen's points.
The Govt is an elected one -- whether you like its leaders or policies is not the issue here, and it surely does have a responsibility to "act" on grievances or issues of the people when some Citizens or Group of Citizens feel strongly enough on an Issue (like this MENJ's created one) to bring "it" to its attention.
By the way mention, some Bloggers had indeed taken certain "incients" to the PDRM (I won't cite the details here as I believe active followers of Blogosphere have got discerning powers) -- I stress the point made by Helen that the Government would NOT react to my pending Memo by surveilling the Blogosphere. It is naive to believe that it has "not" been doing so from the early days of Multimedia development encompassing the Internet.As Helen said:"The Garmen does not need any of our justification to police the web."
P3. "Everybody has an opinion. Everybody has their own sense of justice. That is why it is even more important than ever to let the law decide."
Desi is supportive of Helen's views here. It is because MENJ has been writing such "inciteful" stuff for asome time, again and again ignoring responders' contrarian views and pleas, I decided "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH". I especially took great exception to MENJ's highly "in-human and personal" attack following the (late) Datin Seri Endon's demise. At that time, I did walk away with my Blood Presure raised (I don't even remember if I left any Comment ... if I did, it would definitely have lambasted him in a short, succint comment...).
Q4.Someone said if we report this, they'll (the religious fanatics) still be spreading their venom through other channels. True, but if we can prevent this person spreading 'venom' through one channel, that is already good enough for me.
It's precisely the Initial Post put up by Minishorts, followed by a spiried support by Mei (thescarfer) with her clarion call for people to stand up to be counted that prompted Desiderata to act/react/pro-act ...hence, this Initiative.
So to my EsteemedReaders here, thank you for your Continued Interest in this "national concern".
I'll Re-Post this Initial Post again for today and wednesday, and I'd continue to monitor the developments.
I need to be "persuaded" by sufficient and strong "grounds" to discontnue this Initiative.
Thank you again.
10.51AM Tuesday May 23, 2006
panda kill panda -- if you are the same person as the following Commenter "devilsmark" -- please RE-COPY your comments and include under "devilsmark" -- then I'll welcome and engage you in discourse. Thanks.
--Desi
10.56AM
devilsmark:
Welcome to Dei's Place with a tehtarik,; if you are the same"panda" writing previous comments under various panad-addies, please Re-post your views. Here I call for proud ownership and accountability of views. Hence Anonymous comments are "deleted" -- I am proud of my Blog and if any Readers (esp the new ones) wish to know some background, you are advised to "visit" my first few Posts from March 15/16, 2005, where I also said i broadly had three main objectives:
(1) Civil Society issues
(2) Promotion of English, hence the adoption of a Poet's name of his prime work, Desiderata, as my Blog's name.
(3) Truth seeking -- an indefinable but natural component in a Quest of any "true-blooded"Writer/Poet which I aspire to be one.
Verily, the devilsmark gave his only panda to your blogspace.
You said: "I have "saved" your Comment in my own personal archives, and iif you like to have this Comment Re-posted, please indicate your Identity via Comments channel. Thank you.--Desi"
I have not saved my comments, and intense abuse of chemicals in my younger years have fried my short term memory. So if you don't have them saved as you mentioned above, then they've been committed to a final resting place in the aether of the 'net.
Ave infernium.
devilsmark:
Verily too I say to you, if you do not wish to re-challenge your mind to Re-post similar points as postulated so profusely under three (My recall, may be wrong!) different "panda" banners (my guess again), so Be IT! Wella, there may well be more than 2 pandas roaming in Blogosphere, hence you understand why Desi insists on "personal ownership" of your views, if not proud?
PS: Pls proceed to Latest UPDATE Comments channel to say anything more, devilsmark. See you if the devilsmark, aka panada in its transforming forms, cares2.
This is a free/flee country.
Post a Comment