desiderata.civilsociety
Subtitled: THE MALAYSIAN DILEMMA - LAMENTS OF THE YOUTH TODAYPart 3
It has been an “engaging” session with conversationists centred around Young&Articulate johnleemk’s comments which visited Desi’s Place two Saturdays ago and the ho®st had initially described as an “awesome surprise” … in the context of john being one who had just sat for PMR (14- 15-year-old...?), yet quite astute in certain political observations, and thoughts,which Desi finds rare and beyond most teenagers' worldview at tis tender age. On the otrher hand, these "mature" views were counter-balanced by some points I (only I, please beg to differ, with that RATionale, OK!) deem theoretical, sometimes a wee bit exaggerated as wont of dramatics? -- in raising national issues of current interest here, not facing realpolitik.
Realpolitik dicates we on this earth deal with the ART OF THE POSSIBLE under the sensesurrounds of Malaysia's push-and-push factors and players at centre stage of its domocratic, or guided one, political stage. All citizens can be potential actors and actresses, many choose to be spectators, some choose to run away to foreign shores. It's an individual's CHOICE, really, and the destiny of Malaysia is the sum outcome of its 25 million citizens' individual choices.
I agree with a key point put forward succinctly that Malaysian Opposition parties since Independence have failed the Rakyat miserably,leemksaid, hence driving those who did not see hope in the ruling coalition government into a state of “despair” – both Sabrina and a few oter YoungOnes have echoed similar sentiments in the summary verdict “Hopeless".
For those whose report card reads "RED" or in negative territory on the sole Government they had known for these long almost five decades – from the budding Alliance led by Founding Father Tunku Abdul Rahman in the racially-compartmentalised UMNO, MCA and MIC, representing the three major ethnic groups in independing Malaya from 1957, DESIDERATA is urging them: Stay the fight.
Later, this compartmentalised arrangement, which might have been expedient and had tus now run its useful course within its first decade, metamorphosed into the present 14-component Barisan Nasional which we are all familiar with, incorporating other “minority groups” such as Kadazan, Iban, etc, from Sabah/Sarawak, of of course splinter from the three main components like Gerakan and what you don’t want in UMNO, MCA and MIC.
Like most of my EsteemedReaders, we are trying to search
g for ALTERNATIVES to the present “Seemingly” hopeless situation.
I urge that we look at the BIG PICTURE and not get derailed by the smaller issues, though important but not ranking as priorites in overcoming THE MALAYSIAN DILEMMA. Matters like potholes, LRT stations lacking, highway fiends, encroachment into green fields by housing developers -- these are local government and other enforcement agency issues, best left to the state assemblymen -- maybe push for municipal council elections? -- and consumers associations and other non-government organisations' schemes of things. Even on moral issues, my take is that it's best left to the various followers' religious bodies and their chiefs, as I strongly oppose politicians playing MORAL GUARDIANS. Remember the infamous Malacca's Squad Skodeng under its innovative CM? --Thank God we have had a sensible decision by the Cabinet, no doubt under the guidance of Pak Lah, the God-Fearing PM -- putting an instant stop to it, demonstration a wise decision in line with (Separation of State and Religion, that's another issue another time mahaps?...
Have faith that with concerted and united efforts, by Young and Idealistic Malaysaisn, we can make a difference. Desiderata wishes to push our state of affairs from Negative into Positive territory, hence a more optimistic stance. Term it writer's passion, call me "masochistic", LET IT BE. But Desiderata2000 will LIVE ON with this focused quest, even for one mite gallant reader who stays the fight with Desi!
I said “seemingly" hopeless not for anything BUT TWO FAVOURABLE INCIDENTS, but of course other indicators are also there, but it’s beyond today’s discourse or Desi will be writing 10 boring chapers, with a 11th on boringer digression, and a 12th on the boringest conclusion, and we don't want that, do you? Masochism catchin' on?
FIRST INCIDENT:
A long-serving Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Suadara ANWAR IBRAHIM has come back from the cold. If anyone can say he had tasted the “injustice” of Malaysia’s delivery systems – mainly legislature and judiciary – this is the man, who went into the darkest tunnels of a human’s journey deemed “quite impossible “ in our dear “friendly” land of a 1,000 smiles (no, this description is not from Desi’s wilde imagination, it was one of the catch phrases from Tourism Malaysia…
Well-travlled, suave, sophisticated and an engaging speaker at international forums, a friend of officials in high places in the US of A, the Arab countries, and yes, neighbour Indonesia – Anwar came crashing down on his mentor’s charges of “sodomist” and “corrupt” offences. The nation saw a chain of events Desi had described in another prior article as episodes from “Alice in Wonderland” –- IT GETS CURIOUSERR AND CURIOUSER.
Thousand people-marches in the city of Koala Lumpuh, storm-tropper-like detention of just sacked DPM at his Damansara residence; the “Black Eye” which could have been “self inflicted” as initial theories intimated; the charade of the court trials, with “dates” of events amended a few times –- “to suit the elements?” came to Desi’s mind. The trial would have been a likely Shakespearean ascription had it been in the Roman halls of justice in the halcyon days of Julius Caesar replacing the high-flying days when YoungMalaysians could apply for SpecialLicence (like APs) to become instant millionaires –- one in fact in 1997 became an instant billionaire -– you don’t know who? Hey, get out of here!
SECOND INCIDENT:
In the run-up to all the four GENERAL ELECTIONS prior to March 2004, the BN used the FEAR FACTOR with constant bombardment of PRESS ADVERTISEMENTS, with artistic graphics from one stupid agency who wasted God’s gifted talents as accomplices to the crime – reminding Malaysians of the May 13, 1969 incident. The BN forecast gloom and “Doom” (ya, go see the movie showing at the big screen nearest your hi-fi set or Cineplex!) of murder and mayhem on the streets if the people voted for the Opposition, that’s clearly the message of FEAR. Had it been the Opposition, or any hardy journalist doing it, they would have been doing time within the four grey walls of Pudu Prison then. The Fourt Estate played along with the Establishment committing offences as accesories to the act.
BUT in the March 2004 General Elections, for the first time helmed by the newly-groomed Prime Minsster Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi (My God Bless Him, A Truly God-Fearing Leader, Abundantly…Amen), this hitting-below-the-belt tactic was ABANDONED. No such audio and visual messages with graphic cartoons and caricatures and even ‘seditious” catch phrases appeared in the mainstream papers or on TV anymore. For this, the Rakyat must join Desi in saluting Pak Lah.
That’s why, Desiderata says there is HOPE, yet.
For these two very significant developments, mGf of Youthful Age and THINKING, don’t just give up on OUR COUNTRY, not just, and not just yet.
Okay, now back to leemk, and relevant responses from compatriot Readers:
* RELIGION
My premise in life is that: All mainsream religions preach noble universal values. Deviants will always come and go -- I'll post something on this example TOMORROW, or at the first opportunity available, as I'll really be ON THE BEAT for the next few days eArniong B&B, with some kaya thrown in -- God-willing.
I re-quote from a re-visit to Mother Teresa (featuring Olivia Hussey ...version)recently, when she was confronted by a mob of (Hindus) protesting her converting a temple into a hospice: "I am not here to concvert anybody. If thou be a Hindu, be a good Hindu. If thou profess to be a Christian, Buddhist or Muslim -- be a good Christian, Buddhist, or Muslim respectively."
Do unto others what you wish others do unto you ......
Is this fundamental law in civil human behaviour so difficult to understand?
This sub-topic is important in the context of a hot debate between brothers Imran and leemk, with Desi trying to act as a sort of "referee" (in formal debates, this is a rapporteur, whose role is important to try to keep the peAce within...)
I was mighty happy to get a first person account from s-kay after I closed Desi's comments last night. Please be patient as it will be reprised here later...
* RACE
Desiderata has always been an Opposition advocate in Malaysian politics because I wish to steer away from outdated politics based on RACE. I urge that Malaysian nation-building be allowed to bud, bloom and flower in the springs to come when we leave the politics of RACE behnind. The challenge is in the hands of the YOUNGONES, because there is too much vested interested in maintaining the status quo of compartmentalised race divisons to esnure their survival from GE to the next GE for the Barisan Nasional (also collecting the spoils afterwards, with one sapu-ing the cake, and leaving the ikan-bilis to the rest ...?)
Doomsday will surely follow if this RACISM is not arrested and finally, hOpefully stopped altogether. I spied an interesting Essay on JohnLing's site on this TOPIC, may wish to borrow it for the coming days...Thinking allowed here, and hoping another Young&Articulate one is reading this...:)
* HOMOGENIETY
There was much compaparision between Malaysia and other countries like South Korea, Singapore and Japan (as better advanced models to emulate, which to Desi's mind, is good -- those who benchmark against those more advanced than us is good, in the fields of economic planning, law enforcement and cultural and linguistic developments...).Many of these spheres of activities are easier to tackle when the society is homogeneous - such as SKorea, Japan ... but extraneous burdens are placed on less than homogeneous societies like Malaysia, where a constant energy-sapping factor called RACE always rears its ugly head, even in everyday life, but when used by the politicians as a weapon (remember the keris wayang or sandiwara or iopera ...whatever the BN components like to stage to entertain us on PWTC stage, or the MCA stage, or the MIC wat stage?...Do I digress?
So in realpolitik, a homogeneous country has one advantage, it doesn't have to grapple with the dilemma of RACE, as we have been bewitched with since August 31, 1957 when the ruling elites that's the way to go ...
Pak Lah, be an ICONIC MODEL to the YoungOnes to start dismantling this old, colonial divide-and-rule monster?BAN ALL RACE-BASED POLITICAL PARTIES, my dear most esteemed Prime Minister, think about it? Desi's Challengia, and to ALL MY YOUTHFUL READERS, make this your number one prioroty in your political struggle, homebased, or rom abroad.
I answered the question myself in stating our present PM has got the spiritually in him to go forward, but in the realpolitik that's UMNO land, I feel he's on Reluctant Territory.
* PARTISAN POLITICS and REALPOLITIK
I've deliberately kept partisan politics out of Desi's Place as much as possible, but I agree with a lot of leemk's comments, and I leave it at that for the moment unless he wishes to pursue certain points with me via Email. (Other Readers are also welcome to Email: chongyl2000@yahoo.com.)
Just two main points I share:
In my engagement both as a journalist as well as a card-carrying member of an Opposition party at certain periods when I was allowed to too (not restricted by my profession's requirements...), DESIDERATA would say this:
Realpolitik:
(a) To leemk's appeal to adopt the strategy to "spoil the vote", I've thought hard and deep on this one, I would urge may this be right at the bolttom at the list of options. It is equivalent to "surrrendering the sacred vote" to the Devel and the deep blue sea.
So you get your 15 minutes of media fame. So what?
You know what these nimcompoops in the Dewan Rakyat with 49 perccent of supporting votes, 21% Opposition votes, and 30% "spoilt votes, which is miraculously oiptimistic, even I allow for that to happen!
The handpicked idiotic box in charge of Parliament Affairs willl tell you rakyat, iuncluding the vote-spoilers:
'We have another mandate for the next five years. We'd listen to those who voted for us. Those who support the Opposition like pAS in Kelantan, Terenmgganu (again in 2008...I hope!) -- we'll hold back federal grants and Oil Royalties some more ...
because "YOU A(r)S(e)KED FOR IT!"'
(b) The mindset of many Opposition politicians is similar -- or worse -- that the BN politikus whom they often criticise with a vengeance.
Just ONE EXAMPLE:
*One Opposition state assembly in my hometown FU RONG who started off as a driver in the dying days of his political carer was given a State fiundation scholarship to study law in UK. The politics involved I leave to your imagine-nation, some which surpasses this bloody puur church mouse of a writer who has nothin better to do but sit in front of his Da PC-cat ... being a beesy-body in other peoiple's matters.
One weeping for 'is Opposition party.
*TWO opposition state assemblymen jumped ship to Da Other Side and became "Eat, Drink and Be Merry" disciples over=night. How conveniently their fiery TIGER lambasts of their former enemies-now-comrades-in-arms ...
Second weeping for 'is Oppostion party...
NB: Just before selling out, one of the duo involved was sued by another BN politician for a considerable sum of money and lost the case, so owed the debt which must be paid off. So the devil-workshop worked pretty smooth and smart in Eat, Drink and Be Merryland.
YoungOnes, I weep for thee!
*******CHALLENGIA TO THE YOUNGONES:*******
I had teAsed YoungKyels (along with SabrinaTan, Imran and Dangerous Variable): consider forming a YOUNGPEOPLES'S PARTY as an alternative. No, don't be fence -sitters.
Go for desiderata.idealism, youth and reformation. That leads to CHANGE IN MINDSET and HOPEFULLY, TOWARDS OUR BETTER FUTURE.
Now rope in johnleemk, s-kay, et all who are of SIMILAR IDEALISTIC MINDSET? GAME?
Desi can only provide a compass. My belief, with its weight in gold? Hence, my poem that went along with the two pieces -- THE HORIZON YONDER, and REFORMING ONSELF ...and another today...
In temporary conclusion, ('temporary' because this topic is too important to end here ...) may I seek thy indulgence to extract a little,from my comment responses late last night to some hot exchanges between Imran and leemk (Please visit Saturday's post COMMENTS...):
"**desiderata said...
brothers Imran and leemk:
I urge both brethren here to be "very objective" in separating FACTS from OPINIONS.
What I'm trying to do is strive for a United Malaysia, based on the promotion of a CivilSociety and the Five Pillars of the Rukunegara.
Imran is not totally right in advising that Islamic matters be not subject to debate by non-Muslims, just equally it's not right for Christinas to urge Buddhists to lay off discussing Christianity.
What I urge Conversationists here do is be mutually respectful of the others' opinions. When it comes to facts, I urge both parties to do research properly and thoroughly before making claims what they state as FACTS.
At this juncture, I'd urge both brothers Imran & Leemk (we are Malaysian brodthers aren't we -- because we all love OUR COUNTRY equally, I don't doubt anyone here otherwise -- that's my starting point premise, otherwsie any discourse becomes meaningless...
When I say 2 plus 2 equals 4, that's conventional "fact".
When I say the bas sekolah man charging RM30 per child per month is too expensive compared with last year's RM15, it's just my opinion.
Just 1 concrete example follows: Kyels may think Chua (Jui Meng) a "man of integrity" and which Desi must add: I don't doubt he is... yet lost the MCA presidency contest (against incumbent Ong Ka Ting).
(i) first part of Chua being a 'man of integrity' is Kyels' assessment -- this which desi or for that matter any other readers, may agree or not agree, it's just an opinion;
(ii) he lost the contest -- this is a fact, an political event with a definite outcome at a certain point in time in MCA's history. Period. No one can contest this fact.**" (ends extracts)
It's important, that's why Desi always has impressed on my Readers to use their rational mind.:)You state your opinion, please follow with the RAT-ionale, a mousey-one also-can, I've often teAsed!:) But today I'm SERIOUS.:(
So relating to fear of PAS theocratic government, let's hear it from another Young&Articulate Voice.
And may I now serve you a highly edible, warm and pretty insightful dish that came as another surprise, MIDNIGHT VOICES springoff mayhaps?
"***S-Kay said...
Whoosh...what a debate about religion. Haven't read all the comments in full yet but Imran's first comment here sorta said it all. Will come back in full soon when I am done with my marketing assignment.
John, as a non-muslim and as a young girl who have frequent and have practically spent her childhood holidays (till now) in Kelantan (which is ruled under PAS), here's my thought again from my entry about Malaysian - It's Meaning.
"Kelantanese, for example (those who're still living there) represent what being a Malaysian is all about. Forget politics, just look at the people. They live harmoniously side by side as neighbours. They do not look at other races or religion differently or judge them by their skin color. If one man from that kampung gets whacked up for no reason, the whole kampung would back him up and help him out (Malay, Chinese, Indian..they're all the same). Walk around town and you'll bump into friendly makciks greeting you with a smile. They do not compare but live each day the best they can. Earn an honest living out of what they have. Yeah, sure, the media & the government made PAS look so bad that not many wants to visit the state. Trust me, go there, walk around and you'll wish that the people here can be half of what the people there are"
The point I was trying to make was, despite being ruled under PAS, the people there (of all races) are not affected at all by it. No, don't say that most of the ones there are all old hags who have nowhere else to go because there are so many young ones still living there and there are so many city folks whom I know who have left Kelantan not because it is being ruled by PAS but it was because they had nowhere else to seek a better living. And my friend, the development of Kelantan was impede by the government themselves as they found no need to help an opposition (that much).
I think that was irrelevant =P but heck, it's quite unfair to look at PAS that way sometimes.
Hey Imran,
I was wondering...you know sometimes when there are certain laws of conduct made by some ulamas, they're not directly from the Q'uran rite? (I mean of course the basis to why they made the law was from the Q'uran). Because I was curious..the world is evolving and people are interpreting the Q'uran so differently now (eg: Those who kill others in the name of Islam. That was a crazy interpretation of Jihad by them. What were they thinking?)
Desi dear, sorry to have sidetracked so much from the topic =) Will come back with more...soon..I hope ****"
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No, you aren't off-track, s-kay, you are right on track, because Desi wishes to add:
Between the Devil you know at federal-level Government, and the dark blue sea at State-level government, voters and voters-to-bemhave to pick a choice, engaging realpolitik under the present scenarios or making a fundamental change in the parliamentary process. NEVER, EVER COP-OUT!
Otherwise, be prepared to make do with that Terror of a Minister who advised you roadusers to go back to using the bullock-cart to travel KL-Penang; or that MITI minister who thinks the parliamentarians must wait on her appearance as Queen AP; and have you forgotten so soon the mocking of that BIG "J" that he represents Parliament affairs so well he had to sabe his neck on retreating with a small "j" if you spoilers carry on with opting out! ...Ah, digression is my 3rd name in Blogsworld.
Just in closing, DESIDERATA has this spcial message to the YOUNGONES and those YOUNG-at-heArt:
* Say "Adieu to Pessimism", see that glimmer of hOpe at the end of that tunnel with me?
with a li'l help from mGf,
Sir Cliff Richard
The young ones,
Darling we’re the young ones,
And young ones shouldn’t be afraid.
To live, love
While the flame is strong,
For we won’t be the young ones very long.
Tomorrow,
Why wait till tomorrow,
Tomorrow sometimes never comes.
Love, me,
There’s a song to be sung
And the best time is to sing while we’re young.
Once in every lifetime
Comes a love like this.
I need you and you need me.
Oh my darling can’t you see.
Young dreams
Should be dreamed together,
Young hearts shouldn’t be afraid.
And some day when the years have flown
Darling, this will teach the young ones of our own.
The young ones
Darling, we’re the young ones
The young ones
Darling, we’re the young ones.
14 comments:
I still do not agree with the debate about religion. One may have their own opinions and they are fully entitled to it but honestly speaking who are we to question what someone's religion is all about when we don't even know the base of the religion?
'Nuff said.
Again, everyone has their own thoughts and we all differ. I may say that this is right and you may say that that is totally wrong. So, let's not be judgmental because it serves as a factor for one to counter attack us.
Desi,
Don't get me confused. I did not say I am against inter-faith dialogue. I believe that in order to understand one another, there is no harm in having dialogues with the other races. But what I'm against is when religion is used as a yardstick to differentiate one another. All religious teachings teaches us to live harmoniously with one another without regard to race, colour and creed. Every religion grants the freedom to another race to practice their own religion.
That being said, it would be better if we don't play the race and religion card. I am saddened that people from other races are questioning the rational of Hudud laws without having a deep understanding the rational behind these laws.
Also, no one should question the sanctity of other people's religious beliefs, and one should always refrain from doing so. And I would truly appreciate if a person were to question another person's religious teachings, one should make the effort to gather as much information as possible before commenting on it. And by information is by speaking to people in the know, be it the ulamas and priests. There is a wealth of knowledge waiting to be discovered out there, so take the opportunity to grasp it and fully understand it before making any comments or passing judgements.
kyels:
What is it that you "disagree with the debate about religion"?
There was no debate about religion -- and it's precisely my point that this topic under discussion was NOT about religion, and Desi has often said he feels inadequate or ill-equipped to even debate about Christianity under which traditions and environs he grew up in.
I was just trying to view the perpspectives put in by leemk on PAS vis-a-vis Hudud law which earned a strong rebuttal from brudder Imran, which I do see the latter's clarification. This ws NOT a debae about religion -- it ws about aaaaaaaaaa theocracy (which woriies leemk, and which he opines won't win the PAS enough support...a debatable point I observed because the party had controlled Kelantan and Terengganu prior to GE2004, now still controls Kelantan but lost Terengganu back to BN in GE2004 ...)
I had only wished my Readers to abide by preeciselyyour point -- NOT TO QUESTION WHAT SOMEONE'S RELIGION IS ALL ABOUT --, see the concordance with "If thou be a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, etc...be a good Muslim, Christian, Buddhist RESPECTIVELY, etc...?
The point demonstrated by s-kay is in direct rebuttal to leemk's apprehension about PAS theocracy -- speaking from personal experience of growing up in Kelantan ... to allay fears that PAS rule is going to be worse off than under UMNO-dominated BN, also in consonance with my point easy access to Nik Aziz as compared with BN counterparts from a former DPM's account..., no doubt merely anecdoctal, but still reinforced by the mISbehaviour of many so-called leaders (Keris waving, marching on Chines Assembly Hall threatending to burn down Suqui office ...corruption-proven cases , ad nauseum ...)--'nuff said.
Yes, Desi's Place would NOT wish to debate RELIGION per se, because I had said maybe not as a core point but in passing, this is one subject where you can go on and on TOILL THE COWS -- the animal one with tremendous patience, also the I.Cowws who may not have the patience --COME HOME. Saalaam==peAce, to ALL MY ESTEEMED READERS.
Imran:
No, Imran Dsi did NOT say you are against interfaith dialogue.
What I said was that your advice to brother leemk, as a non-Muslim, NOT TO INVOLVE in discussions on Islam was not totally acceptable, just as I stated that Christians should not advise Buddhists not to discuss about Christianity ...extending the logical sequence, so also Hindus should not advise other religious groups not to discuss about Hinduism.
This advice from Desi is premised on the broad principles of:
(i) one can be a Muslim and yet be high well-versed in inter-faith understanding because he has studies,as in scholarly studies -- even PhD, even writing books, on other religions;
(ii) Desi wishes to discard the myth that only certain people ina particular profession can discuss that profession. Example close to my home: Journalism.
In a conference on Journalsim, the best viewpoints can come from an academic exposed to all kinds of media and having constant communication with the media practitioners, as opposed to a journalism just expeosed to his own particular paper.
And don't accept the crap that seniors in ANY PROFESSOR telling you (young maybe, not of the journalism field perhaps, a poor speaker mayhaps ..) off:
"Look here, I have been in journalism for 10 years, young chic(ku), don't you think I should not (about this profession called journalism)?!"
True naration here:
One senior reporter did a story on "changing the SEX of a child following the pregnancy of the woman, advising the various positions she should be sleeping in ..."
The advice quoted was from the hihest authority in the land called BolehLand -- Jabtan Kerja Raya worker
Place: Journalist "who should know"
INTERVIEW the JKR worker at the mamak stall ...one INSPIRED day when this Journo had his brains laid betwen the hind legs of a wat? ....pleAse fill in the blanks.
PS: This is NO FICTION -- being kind, I advised this collegue NOT TO SEND IN HIS STORY -- but he did, and I think THAT COPY is hiding somewhere in the archives of MuzikaUmum Negara.(You ask me where -- hey, this place is fictional!)
Back to bro IMran:
I similar did advise my ER to sift out the FACTS and Opinions, as it's dangerous and unfair to posture Opinions as facts, which will lead to "unnecsaary, time-consuming, and no-ending" to-and-fro exchanges, and we can't afford that at Desi's, can we?
I secodn you stance that ALL MALAYSIANS SHOULD NOT PLAY THE RACE OR RELIGION CARD in politics, and I lament te REALPOLITIK, wrt press advertisements cashing on the FEAR FACTOR premised on the RACE card, May 13, 1969 remember? For those born after 1969, it's worthwhile to seek information from well-informed, proper and "authoritative" sources of what the INCIDENT was all about. Again, the emphasis is "authoritative" sources, a fundamental Journalism 101 practice, the breach of which that Journalist who wanted to share world-record setting breakthrough in BolehLand in a "secret of transforming a baby's sex after the fact of confirmed pregnancy having occurred by varying sleeping positions ...
Dear ER: please put on THY THINKING CAP; why do I lkeep on insisting on THAT RAT-ionale, mousey-one also-can!?
ooops one "ellor", hence rendering the sentence "nosensical" or not getting through the message I intended:
the narrating journo said:"...don't you think I should KNOW (replacing 'not'...)..." as in claiming just because he had been in media practice for 10 years, he should know better than others.
No, no, no -- anyone adopting this line of logic is telling HOGWASH. He should wash his brain with cow-dung and wake up to the fact, there are in any profession, the bad, the mediocre, the good, and the EXCELEENT ones.
And that excellent one may just be one or two-years on that job, compared with the non-performing 10 years old.
I did not want to say it eralier, but WTF:
When i first read leemk's book chapter (available for public reading via the links indicated at previous post when Desi asked for them for kyels' referrence ...), I said I went wow, Wow, and WoW becaus it was indeed "awesome" -- I have oervsighted reporters of five to 10 years work record under me at a prvious worlplace whose copies shout ATROCIOUS compared with YOungjohnleemk's copies, and our YoungOne is still schooling... -- go, 4 - 4 yourself -decode- Go see-for yourself!
It's not meant for you Desi dear.
:)
And I get what you mean.
One teh tarik to thee!
Like desi said, I never meant to question Islam. I was questioning theocracy, which is PAS' avowed goal. One reason I worry is that some of PAS' Islamisation reforms (like the hudud laws) it tried to implement in Terengganu and Kelantan never came through because the federal government blocked them. (According to the constitution, power to implement laws is given only to the federal government, and not state governments.) There is also PAS' worrying statement that it intends to apply hudud laws to non-Muslims as well.
This doesn't necessarily mean PAS is a bad ruler or incompetent by any means. Like I said, they have a lot of connections with the grassroots, which means they are actually more efficient at getting things done than the government or other bourgeosie-based parties like PKR or the DAP. The problem is the concept of a theocracy, which I feel is the wrong direction for any country to be headed. A theocracy relies on good leadership that will not abuse its powers. A democracy also does the same, but to a lesser extent, because power is derived from the people. In a theocracy, power is derived directly from God. All it takes is power to fall into the wrong hands. (It may not even require that; because God has absolute power, and absolute power corrupts man absolutely, good leaders deriving their power from God may turn corrupt, as happened with Dr Mahathir when he stayed in office for too long.)
If there were a Christian party (I'm a Christian) campaigning on a platform of Christian theocracy, I would vehemently oppose it too. If this party were to implement particular laws such as requiring all Christians to take communion every week, I would also oppose such laws. It's nothing personal. I just feel very strongly about a theocracy, whether based on Islam, Christianity, Buddhism or whatever. Power from God is only for his chosen prophets, and not for politicians.
And imran, I'm genuinely curious: which parts of hudud law do you think I'm mistaken about? If my impression of it is mistaken, could you then point me in the correct direction? I Googled the subject quite a bit (and read quite a bit of material from both sides of the debate) and I'm not sure where I went wrong on this.
As for spoiling one's vote, I found an excellent UK-based site that explains perfectly why I'm in favour of spoiling my vote from the perspective of British politics. It quite correctly describes my view, which basically is: If you want to vote for the government or opposition, do it. If you don't like either of them, cast a spoilt vote. It's the same thing as voting "none of the above" (except we don't have such an option, so we have to go for the next best thing).
In particular, one paragraph perfectly describes my view of Malaysian politics: "And why should the Liberal Democrats (substitute this with "the opposition") be any different if they have power? They have long been part of the same political club that has contributed to the current situation. Their complaint is that they haven’t had their turn to be in charge. What makes you think that a vote for them won’t just mean business as usual, with some tinkering round the edges?"
If you think about it, this is quite true. The only serious opposition to UMNO/BN and its "ketuanan Melayu" is PAS with "ketuanan Islam" (as another blogger put it). Substitute religion for race in the current political system and things go on as usual. The DAP (when it's not chasing some phantom issue that the layman doesn't care about) tends to oppose the government without saying how they'd make things different. Really, it's not enough to say "racial politics is bad" or "the current affirmative action policies are causing for more inequity, not less"; you have to offer an alternative. PKR is usually caught in the middle between the DAP and PAS, and looks like it may be fading fast, Anwar or no Anwar.
And Anwar himself is a bit shady. I'm not sure a bit of prison is enough to change a man, and I'm a bit apprehensive of him, seeing as he was hardly a statesman during his tenure in the government. Knowing Mahathir, Anwar was probably chosen as DPM for his capability to toe the line and not rock the boat. (Un)fortunately, it turns out Mahathir was wrong about that assumption. Still, it perturbs me that Anwar only waited until he was kicked out of the government to start yelling for "reformasi".
Dear ALL:
I'm rejoining this debate after posting RESPONSE to 3 gallant Challengees to Tuesday's FUN C -- and I also invited the 3Ms -- Dangerous V, Howsy and s-kay who has been quite vocal on this arresting topic -- to join the FUN here.
Let's take even exchanges on a serious topic in the spirit of FUN (&some leArning..), OK!
OK - first replying to kyels since she's biref:
No wrries who you're directing at -- nobody takes any offence, and oanyone can BUTT in to add his/her 3-sen worth.So kyels, jump onto the bandwagon again -- you only gave 1 sen, where's the other 2?
brother leemk:first off -- a big ThankQ to your generous sharing with those 2 links -- kyels at least I know will check thee out -- I will2, at regular intervals...
Back to topic:
You again made some astute observations which resonate with mine (no, not buttering anyone here ...add some kaya maybe, and Tuesday is KORNY DOG-gone day, maaf ia, I digress...:(
leemk said: "There is also PAS' worrying statement that it intends to apply hudud laws to non-Muslims as well.
This doesn't necessarily mean PAS is a bad ruler or incompetent by any means. Like I said, they have a lot of connections with the grassroots, which means they are actually more efficient at getting things done than the government or other bourgeosie-based parties like PKR or the DAP. ..."
Desi had said indeed PAS made headway in the northern states, and may yet control a few more states on top of Kelantan come GE2008 -- the extradordinary PakLah's feeelgood factor is gone by then ...Desi expects some swing back into Opposition favour...As you yourself noted, by itself, it would not be able to capture a majority to form the Federal governmment -- the fear of Hudud law implementation is incidental at the moment -- UNTIL & UNLESS the day arrives when 2/3s of MPS vote in favour of implemnting the Hudud laws, a scenarion which is possible when UMNO discards the other mainly non-Muslim components and team up with the fast=growing PAS.
My painting this theoretical scenario is merely for discussion, which is NOT COMPLETELY IMPROBABLE (they can ten change the Constitution ..with two-thirds majority ...)because at one time, the precusrsor to PAS (PMIP) did join the BN coalition...
I won't join leemk's fear then under such a scenario, the largely Islamised ruling coalition would enforce Hudud laws on the non-Muslaims, for my understanding of Islam is they respect other communities' rights to follow and practise their religions, so Hudud laws can't apply to non-Muslims...
But in politics, even extreme events can happen -- still then it's Man proposes, God disposes ...Desi won't hazard those extreme scenarios. Compare: guessing wheher all these disasters --tsunamis, earthquakes, hurrricanes,etc, plus pandemics like now being predicted as potentially on the horizon, bird flu, AIDS, and otherdevastating diseases...
On the point of PKR and Anwar Ibrahim, I too harbour my reservations -- earlier spinoffs like Semangat 46 did not last, would PKR follow the same path? Your questioning of Anwar's links with the Dr Mahathir's regime is a valid point -- but Desi is more willing to give someone who had been treated so "cruelly" to have some spirit of REFORM for a BETTER MALAYSIA -- humans are capable of repentance, yes? (All religions have this basic tenet among its core teachings ...)
So leemk, let's give Sdr Ibrahim a chance, because if there's any one leader capable of offering leadership of AN ALTERNATIVE GOVERNMENT to replace the BN, it's this former DPM who has come back from Da Cold.
As for DAP, I had quoted about those idiotic antics of "selling their souls to the devils" -- joining the Eat, Drink and Be Merry bandwago after being elected on the Rocket symbol -- we have seen enough evidence of those socalled Oppositionists' mindset to be nO DIFFERENT from BN's two leading components, UMNO and MCA.
On another point which I had already dealt with -- the strategy of the "SPOILT VOTE"...leemk said:
"As for spoiling one's vote, I found an excellent UK-based site that explains perfectly why I'm in favour of spoiling my vote from the perspective of British politics..."
My reading is that this is one comparision I would not think valid:
Britain's practice of parliamentary democracy had a longer history (yes, we model our Pariament after the UK model...); they have reached a mature stage where it's almost a two=aprty system - either Labour or Conservative.
I wish Malaysia can achieve that stage -- but the voters seemed unwilling to test this formula -- its so meaningful because if you vote in the Alternative Front in GE 2008 , for example, if they fail to perform for a term of 5 years, throw them out in GE2013...yes, briung back the BN, who must have learnt some lessons on humility and what defeat and being in the Opposition is all about.
I have heard some stupid rebutttals when I canvas for change among "friends" to try out the Alternative Front, such as "How sure are yoiu they will be no different from the BN?"
"Can they really deliver a cleaner government when the system of corruptionis so entrenched?"
Hence as s=kay noted eralier, while people whine about the government endlessly, when the time comes to vote, they still put the "X" against the Dacing!
Masochism, amtes?
Britain's practice of parliamentary democracy had a longer history (yes, we model our Pariament after the UK model...); they have reached a mature stage where it's almost a two=aprty system - either Labour or Conservative.
I'm not sure how that's directly relevant to the spoilt vote issue, however. To me, it seems that the arguments in favour of spoiling your vote if you're apathetic still make sense.
Hence as s=kay noted eralier, while people whine about the government endlessly, when the time comes to vote, they still put the "X" against the Dacing!
That's because they can't bring themselves to vote for the opposition. If you pay attention to the Spoil Your Vote campaign's website, the same thing's occurring in Britain - people are afraid to vote for the Tories because they fear them, much like many traditional BN voters here fear the opposition. Spoiling their vote may be a cowardly compromise, but if it's a compromise they're willing to take, hell, why not? Beats voting for BN any day.
If 1/2 the votes are spoilt votes and the Opposition party MIGHT win because of it, wouldn't it make their 'fear' come true? So there basically isn't any difference in whether you don't vote, you trash your vote and you vote for the opposition.
Having said that, spoilt votes may indeed shake the govt up abit because heck, I'm sure they can sense the rakyat's dissatisfaction but they may also cause alot of unnecessary complications.
My say? Like I mentioned previously, if you like the taste of it, continue ordering it but if you don't like it? Heck, you can always change it back to your usual on your next visit. Why give up on visiting the restaurant so fast when there's bound to be a change in chefs every once in awhile hence a change or an add-on to the menu.
Btw, PAS always comes up with worrying statements. It's common.
Yes, leemk:
Desi in a blur run missed a "thread" -- retreading here: the afct of UK's more mature parliamentary status with almost a two-party sysem quite the norm now, it would have ben a more receptive environment by the electorate, the media, and alternatiove "political" or social acitivists to push the "spoiltt vote" strategy.
Tieing up with s-kay's point, such a move in Malaysia will just see a wasted strategy, whcih in my earlier argument, still give the BN government a blanket hand to mcok these "spoilers" and dismiss you after the 24-hour media limelight into oblivion.
In s-kay's theoretical (even Desi's 2) scenario where you can bring about "40% spoilt vote" lobby, can't this then transfer into a more meaningful "Change of government" from incumbent BN to an Opposition Front.
This is a more meaningful pathway because I'd say a "spoilt" vote strategy won't appeal to an infant society like ours (YET compared to the UK scene...), so let's see about a more REALISTIC APPROACH?
Why spoilt the vote, then land up still suittying on the sidelines with no leveraage on power. Try for centre stage wielding power and running a CLEANER, MORRE ACCOUNTABLE and NEEDS-BASED GOVERNMENT -- throwing out race-based, subsidies, rent-celloction and privelilges-orieented policies to enrich the cornises and relatives!
So leemk -- this "thread" now expanded will logically lead to precisly my option/challengia to the YoungOnes "to spearhead a THIRD OPTION for an altervative VOICE of CONSCIENCE -- desiderata.idealism, reformtion,and progressive and patriotic thinking --
leading to a revolutionary MINDSET CHANGE, my Young Friends?
Can other readers "input" their thoughts on this "Spoilt Vote" versus YOUNGPEOPLE'SPARTY for Change options?
s-kay:
PAS comes up wth occasional "worrying" statements, eh?
It's witnessing the "deju" occurences of corruption, abuse of powers and wstage of the nation's resources that worry Desi the most. A few of mGf bloggers have said they are getting "tired of being tired" --- MBs an accomplice to tycoons felling of rich rtimmer and turning agriculruyre land into housing projects for fabulaous profits"; billion=dollar bailouts (MAS, PERWAJA STESL, BAKUN DAM ad nauseum...); worse, some friends, too sad including some YoungOnes, have "given up", I'm trying these young minds to go back to desiderata.Idealism -- 10 years.
Don't surender the future of OUR MALAYSIA to the second "echelon leaders"(???????, yeah, SE7EN QUESTION MARKS!) who want to use FEAR FACTOR, raising the keris, threatening to burn down law-abiding organisaed groups' Appeals -- and of course, once-in-a-while WEFFARISM promoting Young MCA YOUTH doing what? EAT, Drink and BE MERRY? Becoming a imillionaire at 30? Better yet, a BILLIONAIRE at 27?
I weep for our young nation of 48 years if 20-30 years youth surrender the fight even before the first battle.
I'm retiring for a respite, battle weary. No more tears to shed, reAlly...
ooops, "deju" can't be blogging short of "deja vu", can it?
AS cf with yummylicious as short for yummy and delicious from one Rose...
and yeah, Desi's uncopylefted
mGf for my GOoD friend in the singular or plural, you don't need as "ass" in the latter,
reading in CONTEXT, mGf, context.
desi:
Actually, I've seriously considered the formation of a new party. I have no idea if I'm even going to take any serious first steps towards this, because like Sabrina, I'm very pessimistic about whether anyone can turn this country around, and thus, I might yet migrate. (Certainly, I won't be going to university here.)
s-kay:
If 1/2 the votes are spoilt votes and the Opposition party MIGHT win because of it, wouldn't it make their 'fear' come true? So there basically isn't any difference in whether you don't vote, you trash your vote and you vote for the opposition.
True, but human psychology was never very logical in the first place. After all, the best time to visit Bali is immediately after a bombing (no offense to the locals); the price of everything will nosedive to attract visitors, and security will be heightened as police hunt for the bombers. Perfect mix of security and economics. Nevertheless, how many Australians did you see in Bali just after the latest bombing? The fact is, we humans aren't logical when we think.
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